Curse

FoxBat · Jun 06, 2009, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Heal as one is obviously there for bar compression. Any build without it starts to lack in other departments.

Bar compression? Do you really need a self heal? :/

Not that there is much in the way of elites to pick from.

Hugh Manatee · Jun 07, 2009, 12:54 AM // 00:54

The points in command are useless, put em elsewhere.

This might roll places like the northern shiverpeaks and kryta but I can't see it doing squat in the level 20-24+ areas much less HM, compared to other, stronger builds.

I'm pretty sure I could do about as well with RTW and maybe body shot and savage to spike with, using oath shot to spam the assassin and djin, maybe stick trip shot and MoP or Barbs.... That said:

Quote:

But seriously - if the build works well, pretty sure I in spite of not taking advantage of Expertise... then it must be "right". And it DOES work well in my experience.

Mending frenzy healsig whammos with holiday headgear work "well". Pretty sure I could even vanquish any given zone with one, and might be a fun change of pace too... Is using them "right"? Is it an optimal build that maximizes the efficiency of my abilities... probably not, but pretty sure I could even out damage your dps with one.... it's still not good. 100ish dps aint that great either. Rangers don't generally fill the DPS role unless it's barrage nuking or trapping. They are much better at utility stuff like BHA, conditions and interrupts.

Quote:

I'm doing it "wrong"? So you think Rangers are not allowed to use any skills that are unaffected by Expertise? Calling all rangers! Stop using PvE skills, you're doing it wrong! Stop using Splinter Weapon! Stop using Conjures! etc etc.

A: you use the skills you mentioned so the skills that use expertise are buffed, like putting a conjure on top of keen shot>mel shot>savage shot spike. That hurts and it's cheap to fire off due to expertise. Or putting splinter on barage or volley(though splinter would arguably be better put on a rit specced higher into channeling then a ranger could go). In each case the conjure or splinter is the ONLY thing that expertise doesn't affect on the whole bar, spliter B/Ps don't take spirit rift or shelter, Conjure turrets don't take firestorm or meteor shower.

B: This doesn't mean that you should use just any non expertise effected skills, IE the meteor shower+firestorm+oath shot R/E nuker that turned me off of pugs forever....

C: if you're going to use non expertise skills you have to support them, heket's and a zealous spear means you're using an inferior weapon, an inferior IAS, and are unabe to use attack skills, can't generate energy when blind, hexed, or foes are blocking and evading behind line of sight(as you said, as long as you're hitting). A Good ias(that lasts longer or allows the use of attack) could use a Good weapon(sundering or vamp spear) to attack at an increased rate, dealing more damage. Try dropping heket for lightning reflexes(or NRA), EBSoH for dwarven stability or Air of superiority, drop the command points into expertise, bring an attack in the optional slot.

Quote:

Err... no ranger = no pet, no Sin and no Djinn. Are you going to tell me Minion Masters are also useless because everything is done by the minions? .....Do you understand the benefit of Minion Masters and their minions to divert damage away from the party? Well it's the same thing. I want to send the disposable summons and pet (pet usually survives pretty well though) forward, to draw aggro and soak up damage... while I stand back going pew pew pew with my ranged attacks.

A: Minion Maters are useful because they can support their minions, and the party to a lesser extent at the same time. You're meat shields aren't as durable or renewable as minions, between jagged, AotL, The Golem or lots of fresh bodies and being supported by BotM an MM has up to 10 minions constantly regenerating, and exploding when they die for AoE and degen, and triggering psychical hits for stuff like Mark of Pain, Barbs, ect. You have 1 that attacks slow and disables your skills when it dies, 1 that lasts about 15 seconds on a 30 sec recharge and only does real damage the first 3 seconds it lives, and 1 that has a 60 second recharge and only wands and casts immolate and hides in the backline, potentially drawing agro.

B: You mention your awesome sustainable damage, but if the "army" is responsible for your DPS at the master of damage, then why are they disposable? If any one of them dies(and in HM they will in 2 or 3 shots) your DPS tanks, yet they are "disposable"... The reason MM meat shields are "disposable" is they explode and get replaced with jaggs when they die. Also, master of damage doesn't fight back.

Interesting novelty build, but lame compared to top tier whupass.

Riot Narita · Jun 07, 2009, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

R/P
Beast Mastery - 10+1
Spear Mastery - 10
Expertise- 11+2

Never Rampage Alone
Asuran Scan
Holy Spear
Spear of Redemption
Spear of Lightning
Great Dwarf Weapon
Heal as One
Charm Animal

Use with a Zealous weapon. Use for damage against most enemies that don't go down easy. for easier areas, use EBSoH instead of Asuran Scan.

This is probably one of the best damage focused Spear/Pet ranger builds I can think of. GDW is pretty good to buff pet damage and utility with knockdowns. Heal as one is obviously there for bar compression. Any build without it starts to lack in other departments. Spear elites are too high a adrenaline cost to bring, and other BM elites lack because pet AI and pet attacks suck, especially in PvE. Expertise Elites are non-relevant.

Use a shield, or focus if need be, but use it for the inherent mods, since you won't get the extra bonus for meeting the requirement.

Yeah, I've run similar builds (tend to take a Spear Elite, rather than Heal as One.. and work Spear of Fury in there to charge the elite quick).

I tried yours at Master of Damage just now - the damage is not really that great, I got about 65 dmg/sec average over the 3 minutes. But it has other advantages - all the skills are easy to spam indefinitely, Spear of Redemption is great for blind removal, knockdowns from GDW are very useful, and it has a good self+pet heal.

Aldric · Jun 07, 2009, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

R/P
Beast Mastery - 10+1
Spear Mastery - 10
Expertise- 11+2

Never Rampage Alone
Asuran Scan
Holy Spear
Spear of Redemption
Spear of Lightning
Great Dwarf Weapon
Heal as One
Charm Animal

I tried Heal as One but i found I was very rarely using it at all so I switched back to comfort animal to free up my elite spot again.

Never Rampage Alone
Asuran Scan
Barbed Spear
Spear of Fury
Blazing Spear
Ferocious Strike
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal

Spear 12
BM 12+1+1
Exp 6+1

My SoF fully charges Blazing so Blaz-SoF-Blaz tend to be a very common and potent attack string.I would like to try and squeeze Cruel Spear in there but I havent really liked most of the combinations ive tried yet.

Axel Zinfandel · Jun 08, 2009, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Seriously speaking however, Hybrid or Pet builds will never be too viable unless something is changed in PvE

Beomagi · Jun 08, 2009, 11:56 AM // 11:56

I think the main issue orange has - and that I see, is this is a pve build with summons. Call it a 1 man army if you like, but I can't call it a ranger or a spearchucker.

With one spear skill you can't use often, you get all other bonus damage for the pet and yourself through ward.

Without expertise or many skills for expertise why be a ranger? You may as well go e/r and benefit from wanding targets under mark of rodgert and glyphs to cheapen the summons.

Sorry to say, but the spear and pet contribute sub optimally, and its these areas where you have a chance to shine. 100 dps from pve skills isn't out of the ordinary, but there's a lot of setup with this variant of yours, and a lot that can go wrong.

Pet death, anti caster, anti ranged attacks, a strong group/foe wiping your summons early (you'll probably say that's their job, but what can you add in the interim?)

With this setup, go e/r. You'll get conjure, mark of rodgert, and energy saving skills for your spells, plus spells to do damage yourself.

Or go rit/r. You'll get spirit's strength which will add huge bonus damage to regular attacks. Heck you get a cheap cover enchant to prevent blindness and protect spirit's str, and you increase the length of skills like great dwarf weapon which are perfect for pets.

Orange Milk · Jun 08, 2009, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Pretty much what Hugh Manatee and Beomagi said.

The Ranger and the pet are useless in this build I don't know how you don't see that. They do nothing at all, and saying "Without the Ranger then no PvE skills" I so So what, ANYONE can run those skills, any proffesion.

So ask yourself, WTF is the Ranger bringing to the table that the Team NEEDS the Ranger for?